Rescue Shit

Bird Flu

• Rescue Shit • Season 2 • Episode 3

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As we're starting to see reports around WA about bird flu, we decided to tackle this subject with some discussion about the facts- as well as our projections and thoughts.

Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!

Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!

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jme:

Hi, I'm Jme.

Pate:

I'm Pate.,

jme:

and we are Motley Zoo.

Pate:

This is our podcast, Rescue Shit.

jme:

Today we're going to talk about bird flu, and we are going to, unlike our evergreen content of other things, we are going to talk about the fact that this is January of 2025, um, because these have some relevant facts and statistics, which will be changing over the coming months and the situation's gonna change... Hopefully not for the worst, but this is January of 2025, when we are talking about bird flu, the H5N1 virus.

Pate:

Right, and the reason why we're bringing it up is because of the worry of cats. So, trap, neuter, release cats. It's a lot of cats that we work with are strays. They're out there. We work with some people that do TNR and the ones that are not crazy and are rehomeable or adoptable, they do reach out to us. And so it is something in the back of our minds to be concerned about, especially after what happened in Shelton.

jme:

Yes. So what we're referring to is a, big cat sanctuary. Cougars, tigers, lynx, bobcats, those kinds of things.

Pate:

Was there a caracal?

jme:

Caracal? Yeah,

Pate:

and there was a Serval too,

jme:

mm hmm. They had about 40 cats and they had to euthanize half of them. Yeah, so 20. Yeah, 20, 20 big cats did not make it, because they were affected with bird flu.

Pate:

They have 17 left.

jme:

Their vet came when the first cat got sick and thought the cat had cancer. Then the vet came when the second cat got sick and the vet said the cat had cancer. At that point though, the state was called in. I'm not sure why or the circumstances surrounding that, but it quickly became apparent that it was bird flu,and they believe that it probably came in from Tainted Food. So this is the bigger problem because even if we're not talking about TNR, we're talking about animals like domestic cats, one being in danger outside, which, you know, we've been singing that song for a long time, Don't Let Them Out. But also because there was actually a recall of some pet food, which we're going to tell you about. It was the two pound bag of feline turkey, Northwest Naturals. And this had the best use date of May 21, 26 through 6, 23, 26. And they actually had to recall the cat food because a domestic house cat died from it being tainted. we're concerned for TNR cats, for all the outdoor feral communities, and especially how people may handle what's going to happen if they do start to become a vector for this, and become a more dangerous thing for humans to encounter. So indoor outdoor cats are in danger. Not only of catching the birds and eating them or anything like that, but The the droppings and the water they could drink from a puddle And this is where you know, our concern also starts to spread to dogs. There have been no confirmed cases This is this is that part is Speculation, and I'm not trying to be, um, inflammatory or, you know, whatever, um, but it has spread to cattle.

Pate:

Right. Well, yeah, dairy. The dairy in California.

jme:

Yes. So 645 dairies in California have had, infected cattle with bird flu.

Pate:

Yep.

jme:

So how many of that, because even in dairy farms. You still eat the baby boys and the old ones go to the slaughterhouse. So how many of them Ended up in pet food,

Pate:

our food.

jme:

Our food.

Pate:

Well, I don't eat cow.

jme:

Well, even the milk. Even the milk. The milk can be tainted.

Pate:

But I'm lactose intolerant. You have to worry about the milk.

jme:

I don't have to worry about milk. I don't like milk. I don't know,

Pate:

but cheese, right? Like, does it affect cheese?

jme:

Cheese? I'm gonna have to give up cheese. Okay, so I am vegetarian and I do eat eggs and I don't drink milk, but I do eat cheese. And then Pate...

Pate:

Can't have milk,

jme:

can't have milk, and she's vegetarian, mostly vegan really, because she can't have milk,

Pate:

can't have milk.

jme:

And, I'm thinking this might be a good time to try being a vegetarian, or at least, at least,

Pate:

you are a vegetarian.

jme:

No, for people, our audience.

Pate:

Oh, oh, oh.

jme:

To not eat chicken, and not eat chicken.

Pate:

Poultry, because yeah, the recall was turkey, so any kind of poultry.

jme:

That's true, turkey. We're not gonna tell you what to do, but.

Pate:

Remember mad cow disease?

jme:

That is why I started becoming a vegetarian. It was just so gross to me, I didn't really think I was gonna get mad cow disease.

Pate:

Yeah, so it's mad cow disease, and then now it's H5N1.

jme:

Which can kill you.

Pate:

Cow disease.

jme:

It's not as far fetched as that, because on January 6th of 2025, so just a few days ago, the first human death From H5N1 occurred in Maryland.

Pate:

Okay, and we're not trying to be

jme:

We are not trying to be inflammatory or scare anybody.

Pate:

Yeah, there's no like fear mongering going on right now.

jme:

No, we're just discussing what's going on and how You may think it doesn't relate to you or your pets, but how it really can and it really does. We found out that in our surrounding area, Snohomish County actually has the highest number of Birds that were infected in Washington with 10, King County with 9, 53 total birds, but you know, 10

Pate:

flocks.

jme:

Yeah, 10 being the highest and that's 15 minutes down the road.

Pate:

No, it's Snohomish County. Like we're in Snohomish County.

jme:

Oh, you're right.

Pate:

Yeah. King County was nine. Snohomish County is ten.

jme:

You're right. There is a town of Snohomish too. And that's what I was thinking. So there's a low risk to humans if you are not handling dead birds.

Pate:

Don't touch your face when you handle your chickens.

jme:

And don't kiss your chickens, unfortunately. And there has been no human to human, contact, but keeps seemingly spreading to new mammals.

Pate:

Right? And then there was a case of two cougars in Clallam, Clallam,

jme:

Clallam,

Pate:

yeah, I can't say it.

jme:

Clallam County

Pate:

Yeah, so that, I mean,

jme:

two wild cougars,

Pate:

two wild cougars, right? So that your concern there, it goes back to Shelton where they think, yes, it was tainted meat, but It could also have been wild bird droppings. And obviously it's not tainted. Well, I shouldn't say it's not tainted meat. Cause it could have been a tainted,

jme:

a tainted chicken that they ate,

Pate:

a chicken that they ate or a wild bird that they ate. Right. Yeah. So it doesn't necessarily need to be in the environment for them, like with droppings and the water and stuff like that. They could have eaten that bird. But people who let their cats out and the colonies out there, the feral colonies out there, they're eating birds.

jme:

Yep.

Pate:

You know?

jme:

Well, and also they've been telling hunters to be aware. I mean, like if you're a duck hunter you have to be concerned. And I mean, I don't know if it can spread to cattle. Can it spread to deer? Probably. They don't eat the meat, but what if they're eating and drinking from puddles that have you know, bird droppings in them.

Pate:

Yeah, how did the dairy cattle in California get avian?

jme:

Probably their, their grain, their food.

Pate:

Are they feeding them chickens?

jme:

Well, no, but like, what if the grain was near contaminated chickens? So the food, maybe, I, I don't know if it can live in, you know, whatever, um, that's something that we're going to have to figure out, but, but probably maybe people were the vector. They went from contaminated chickens to the dairy farm and then, and then, you know, infected the cattle. Human vectors is a factor, even if it's not spreading to the humans.

Pate:

But the, the concern is definitely our cats, because it is showing, like I said, besides our dairy, that the wild cougars that they've come across, that they've confirmed.

jme:

Yes.

Pate:

Um, and then that poor sanctuary Shelton, like I would, I would be devastated.

jme:

Well, and they said that the, the cases went from mild to fatal within 24 hours.

Pate:

Right. They, I guess the symptoms are pneumonia like symptoms.

jme:

And so, you know, it's fast moving and it could pretty much decimate an entire population of animals before you even really know you have it.

Pate:

Right. It's highly contagious.

jme:

Yes.

Pate:

Well, I mean, for the birds.

jme:

Well, and, when we're talking about trap neuter release in ferals, that's what TNR stands for, Trap, Neuter, Release. So those are community cats that people are trapping and spaying and neutering and then putting back on the street. Because that actually has shown to reduce populations of roaming cats, which is another different story, but the reality

Pate:

Another one of our battles.

jme:

Yes, but the reality is, is that feral cats and cat colonies don't need to be vilified any more than they already are.

Pate:

Yeah.

jme:

And. Our concern is what is going to happen if people start to fear stray cats coming around their property and thinking that they're going to get sick. This is what we were worried COVID could have turned into if people's pets started getting COVID and affecting them. So some pets did get COVID, but it didn't transmit to humans. The pets were getting it from people, but not giving it to people.

Pate:

Correct.

jme:

And in this instance You're the stray cat that shows up could be giving you flu. So, we are just very concerned about what that means for the many millions of cats and cat colonies and the people that are, helping support them and feed them.

Pate:

Or rehoming them.

jme:

Yes.

Pate:

You know, once we get them, once we get kittens or a mother. Mm hmm. From a feral colony who is adoptable and we put them in a home. How does that affect anything?

jme:

Well, before it was like we worried about them maybe having upper respiratory infection. Mm-hmm And like quarantine them so they don't get your cat sick or, right. Mm-hmm Or whatever. And now like, and ringworm, let's say ringworm is like the worst thing that, you know, people are afraid of when you,

Pate:

people hate ringworm

jme:

when you talk about, you know, fostering pets.

Pate:

And then to reiterate, ringworm is a fungus, not a worm.

jme:

It's just like athlete's foot.

Pate:

It is.

jme:

So if you've had Athlete's Foot, or anyone in your family has athlete's foot, you've got ringworm. It's nothing to be afraid of.

Pate:

It's tinia. It's tinia.

jme:

Yeah, but um, you know, people are afraid of getting ringworm and that's just a fungus. That's not gonna kill you. But if people can get You know, H5N1 from a cat that they're fostering or a cat that they just adopted like, you know, We in the animal welfare world have to start, you know, taking even more precautions than we do Motley's Zoo Always quarantines our animals for a minimum of two weeks We have done this from day one and we will continue to do this until we if we ever stop we are never going to give up the quarantine process because That is part of how we sleep at night, knowing that we are doing our best to make sure that animals and people are safe. But, this is a whole new thing of taking in, I found a litter of kittens under my porch. And, I have nowhere to put them. This puts a new spin on that for the decisions that we're making. And, this could end up being, let's say you take the loss of animal life out of it. a very expensive endeavor just dollar wise that all of a sudden we have these cats that are going downhill and we have to euthanize all these cats. This could be very, very detrimental to any animal organization.

Pate:

Yeah. I mean, the emotional toll is, you can't even really think about the emotional toll. Like I said, I would be devastated if I was at Sanctuary and Shelton. My heart like goes out to them because that, I was just looking at the video and I don't even know them and it crushed me, you know? But imagine having them with you when... so that's going to be an emotional toll. And then the health concern for like who is going to foster like if This is a highly contagious disease.

jme:

And we're speculating right now.

Pate:

Yeah, total, total speculation. But this is how we work. Like, we think about stuff and And we think ahead. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, depending on where the cats come from, it's not just panleukopenia that we have to worry about, which is, fatal, highly contagious.

jme:

Which isn't transmissible to people or dogs.

Pate:

Exactly, right, but it's transmissible to other cats in the home. And I know, I know, I get this all the time that the two week quarantine is just a pain in the ass all the time. I mean, we have lost fosters because

jme:

they don't want to quarantine.

Pate:

They don't want to quarantine. But the outcome if you don't quarantine is so much worse. I have fortunately not had a lot of Parvo puppies. I had one case and because I quarantined, I had other puppies in the home. My blind dog Allie was one of those puppies and She was young and I'm sure I had other puppies as well. But when I took on these three little pit bull puppies who were, five weeks old or whatever, bottle feeding or whatnot, the idea wasn't Parvo, but they were still quarantined for two weeks and we're not out and about. So when Parvo did hit, no one got Sick.

jme:

You had to clean your bathroom like

Pate:

Oh, I was Insanely Yeah, like every freaking week I was cleaning that bathroom. And then once Tulip didn't have Parvo anymore, I was freaking, I cleaned the house like every freaking week. I mean, well and Need some rescue, like I went over the top. I was a little, I was, yeah.

jme:

Well, but for good reason and, and you did not have new puppies in your home. for another six months.

Pate:

It wasn't until Groot because I was so worried. That took such an emotional toll on me. Losing Precious Pronchus, and Jessie, and then just the way Tulip suffered by herself. Don't ask me why no one wanted to foster to adopt because we've had Parvo puppies before. before in the past.

jme:

Yeah, she got kind of screwed over.

Pate:

She totally got screwed over. And we always had someone who would foster to adopt. And I was pimping her. I'm not pimping, but

jme:

that's our term. We joke about it. Pimping her out to people.

Pate:

I'm like, Oh, you're looking for a pit bull puppy. You don't have other puppies in the home, or you have a healthy adult and who's been, Vaccinated. Vaccinated. Multiple times. And you've got great vet history. Look at this. Look at this face. I mean, and she was freaking adorable and nothing.

jme:

Was she with us for two years or three before she found her home?

Pate:

I think two years. And I'm thinking, anyway, two to three years. But yeah, so that was that was not a good scene at all.

jme:

Well, and it affected her emotionally. Because of the quarantine. It affected her behavior and her socialization. So when she would see dogs. It sounded like she wanted to kill somebody, but she was really just excited and wanted to meet them.

Pate:

So excited.

jme:

And thankfully we had a daycare client who, wanted a second dog and they suggested her, which we were like, Oh, yeah. And, and, you know, at first we were kind of like, Oh, they're probably gonna, you know, change their mind once they meet her or whatever.

Pate:

She crazy.

jme:

Yeah, but they love her and they still bring, their dogs to our kennel, even though we now don't have daycare. We see them here at the kennel.

Pate:

Yeah, we just saw her in December. Her and Kona.

jme:

Mm hmm. So, you know, that's a great example of sometimes it takes Two years for us to find the right family for a dog, or cat, but we are not going to take chances, especially with dogs.

Pate:

Well, especially with contagious diseases

jme:

and never with contagious diseases. I get why people don't like the quarantine. I don't like having a dog in my bathroom that, is barking or crying because they can't be with the family. There's ways to mitigate it and we go in and spend time with them or take them out in the yard into one specific spot that we never take any other dogs, especially our own dogs. You could have a quarantine corner where You know where the foster dogs are going so that if for some reason you have a problem then You've got it under control But you know that could be something that you might want to ask an organization like do you have a quarantine process? What's the process? And really before COVID No one really understood what quarantine meant. We had to define quarantine to people many, many times over. We don't really have to be so specific anymore because people know exactly what that means and yeah A lot of people don't want to do it right for cats. It's easier though it really is easier for cats because you can literally put them in a bedroom or in a bathroom and

Pate:

With a litter box

jme:

and food go in there pat them play with them but You know cats are kind of freaked out by changes in the environment anyway, so they really need time to adjust and The cats are often Not going to be introduced to every animal in your home they're probably gonna stay in their space and you're gonna keep them in that space until they are Adopted or go to a different foster because that's what cats prefer. They prefer a small environment Especially when things are changing so A big house can be very overwhelming for a cat, but now we're gonna have to come up with a protocol and you know these processes of how do we take in cats? Where do they come from? What are we what are we gonna do? But quarantine is never gonna be off the table ever And it's really important and you know The lengths that we go to to protect our people and animals seem kind of ridiculous to some people For example when Niall finally got adopted We had a Purebred Pumi puppy named Niall Horan and he took more than two years to find a home for and somebody made a snide comment on Facebook like Great that he got adopted, but the time it took is ridiculous Well, that's what happens when you deal with people who look at a picture and think that they want something But then they are not prepared to meet the needs of that animal In the end and so a lot of times we get flack for you know In, in rescue in general for being too, too specific, too ridiculous. Um, but you know, for Montlisieu, we're really objective about what it is that we are sticklers on and what it is that we're not. I've seen rescues that won't adopt outside their city or, rescues that won't adopt a dog unless you have a fence. We don't care if you have a fence. We want to know what you're gonna do with your dog, and how you're gonna Um, exercise them and give them the stimulation they need because chances are throwing them in the backyard is not going to be exercised for the dog. So, you know, even among rescues, we don't understand a lot of the reasons why people stick to some of their, their rules. And we understand that nationwide that those are the rules that, um, collectively animal welfare associations are trying to get people to lighten up on. Um, but, you know, when we're talking about. You know things that endanger our animals or people or anything like that We are not we are not going to give on that and you can say that, you know We're ridiculous till we're blue in the face But we're not going to have the same problems that other organizations have or the same return rate that you know Some organizations might have and that's not their fault Like I will say that's not a shelters fault at all it that they have a high return rate It's the nature of the beast, right? But so going back to bird flu.

Pate:

Yeah, I mean it's something that we need to think about It's not something that we need to be paranoid about no But it's something that we do need to think about when it comes to taking in our cats in the future Especially the ones that we get from outside

jme:

we do ask if you let your cats out when we adopt. And, we encourage, indoor only cats. And part of the reason is that cats are actually decimating the songbird population. And they kill millions and millions of birds.

Pate:

And squirrels.

jme:

Yeah. Every year. And it's actually brought some songbirds to the brink of extinction and it literally could go overboard. It is domestic cats attacking and killing songbirds. That is one of the biggest problems about letting cats out. Never mind, getting hit by a car or being attacked

Pate:

or Poisoned by a neighbor who hates cats.

jme:

That's another one. And that's where my head goes when I think about how people are potentially gonna vilify Feral cats or cat colonies or stray cats is that the people that already don't want them that's gonna be a field day for them. These are the things that we worry about and, we obviously are going to be very pragmatic about it. We are not being sensationalists about this. We're not out to scare anybody. This is a very, timely topic and we thought we'd bring it up because it is affecting animals in Washington and not just birds, not just poultry. There's going to be a lot more to come in the future about this, think about, they just, they still don't know where coronavirus came from, right? You know, did it come from people eating, you know, tainted animals?

Pate:

Bats? Was it bats?

jme:

I don't even know. I thought it was a pangolin.

Pate:

Well, I thought SARS was a palm civet. Palm civet.

jme:

Palm civet.

Pate:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So stop eating those animals.

jme:

Well, and the swine flu, that's pigs, right? So there's a lot of problems that You know come up when people are eating animals and eating different kinds of animals and eating wild caught animals things like that

Pate:

in the factory I mean the factories aren't I'm sorry factory farming. That's not clean

jme:

It is not clean. It is not good. We know that 99 percent of the people that love dogs and cats probably eat meat. And we're not trying to, convert you to be the 1 percent that don't. There is no perfect system, but I, I know

Pate:

Please avoid the factory farm.

jme:

Yes,

Pate:

like so, I mean if you're gonna eat meat, please try to eat pasture raised.

jme:

Pasture raised, organic.

Pate:

Yeah, organic. Well, and I mean, I don't know how you do it. I mean

jme:

go to the local farm and get a butchered cow.

Pate:

Right. Yeah.

jme:

Yeah. I mean, but it makes more sense, right? And, and you know what I heard actually too is that, the eggs at Metropolitan Market and Whole Foods are like half the price of eggs in normal grocery stores, because those chains are so focused on local, farm to table, that the eggs cost so much less to transport and deal with, so eggs at Metropolitan Market are like 3, and they're like 8 or 9 at the grocery store.

Pate:

Are they pasture raised?

jme:

Yes. So, you know, that's where you could really benefit from, getting local. But, think about it this way, too. If you're getting local eggs, you better cook them really, really well. Because they are not pasteurized. And raw milk. Please don't get unpasteurized raw milk, that is a concern with the dairy, the dairy cows, that the milk can, could contain bird flu. You got to be really careful. And of course, you know, We can say too, eating salad, you can get E. coli. But you know what that's from? That's from the runoff from the cattle farms affecting the produce of farms.

Pate:

Stop with the factory farms.

jme:

Yeah. I don't even want to go there. So, bird flu.

Pate:

Yeah, it's just something that we're thinking about. Something that, hopefully, we don't have to be concerned about in the future. But something that we do need to think about. Something that we need to be prepared for. And

jme:

Well, we've already got the wildfires and now, oh gosh, we're already full. All the organizations here are full.

Pate:

Talk to me about the wildfires

jme:

and, we just got over taking hurricane animals and now, you know, we are being asked to take fire, animals. And it's, it's just a lot like the Tacoma Humane Society has more animals than they've ever had in. Seven years, so almost almost done.

Pate:

Yeah, and and again remember we were talking about spay and neuter Well, this is what happens when you don't spay and neuter your dogs And you have a hoarding situation and then the shelter has to go and take care of that hoarding situation for you

jme:

Well, and you don't even have to have a hoarding situation to have problems with not spaying and neutering your dogs

Pate:

No, I'm just saying that's the reason why Tacoma is overflowing at the moment because they just got It

jme:

A hoarding case?

Pate:

Well, no, I mean right before the hoarding case, it was a, the dog fighting case. And they had to, and they were full with that.

jme:

Well, and they were already full before that. So they were full with just general population. Then there was dog fighting. Then there was hoarding. Now we're, you know, as a state being asked to take animals from the wildfires. Really just, the hits do not stop coming. And it's, it's really scary actually. Trying to survive as a charity, trying to survive as an animal organization. And that is not where people are putting their dollars, there's no government funding for animal organizations.

Pate:

I mean, didn't you hear, okay, this could be total hearsay? But I heard that Elon Musk gave Jeff Bezos's Ex wife a little bit of grief for all of her. Yes charities for women and whatnot and So she she was like, oh great. Thanks for dissing me and now I'm doubling it But you know the point of that story was that she doubled her charities for for people

jme:

for humans.

Pate:

Yeah, but um Animals could really need some help.

jme:

They're not on the list of causes that she supports. So when she has open calls animals don't even make the cut. So we couldn't even apply, a couple years ago when she opened up the giving. And, you know, we are not trying to diss, her at all. But I would like to have a conversation with Mackenzie Scott. I would really like to talk to her about how helping animals does help people and that you can help people but not to the extent that they're having to give up their animals to be euthanized. In order to help them, like, homelessness or food insecurity. People can't be forced to give up one member of their family to save the rest. And, it's

Pate:

Well, and think about ESAs. Like, people have emotional support animals, and she's supporting the people. But then, what about those animals who then support these people, right?

jme:

Yeah, and they're not included in that kind of care or funding. Of course, they're expected to give up their pets to move into some kind of housing or to get support for themselves Which is why people live in their cars in safe parks because they don't want to give up their pets So we have just opened up a Pandora's box of a bunch of other social issues that are happening but The takeaway from that is we applaud what Mackenzie Scott is doing. We just would love to get in a room with her and help her understand.

Pate:

Just open her mind a little bit.

jme:

Yeah, help her understand that this is really important. And, you know, Gandhi has a saying that,

Pate:

Is it the morality?

jme:

The morality and honor of a society is based on how they treat animals. And I would love for Mackenzie Scott to think about that because animals need help. People need help too. But we are coming at it from the animal perspective. However, it is a very human focused situation.

Pate:

For reals.

jme:

So, bird flu.

Pate:

Bird flu and Mackenzie Scott.

jme:

Wrapping up bird flu. Well it's just so interesting how so many things overlap with, from one thing to the next, to the next, to the next, and how we could talk about ten different subjects and they're all related and all very relevant. We could talk on forever, and we'll never get everything discussed.

Pate:

Digression is my middle name.

jme:

I'm Jme.

Pate:

I'm Pate.,

jme:

And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue. This is Oops. Go ahead.

Pate:

Start over. Hi, no, no,

jme:

bye, I'm Jme. My favorite is when I, I made Patty cough. My favorite is when I go to say, Hi, I'm Patty. Okay, okay, bye, I'm Jme.

Pate:

I can't. Why do I cough when I laugh?

jme:

Anyway. I'm Jme.

Pate:

I'm Pate. This is our Podcast rescue shit

jme:

Rock on

Pate:

rescue on

jme:

Cough for our sound effect at the end.

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