Pet Aging: Supplements, Medications & Alternative Treatments

pate and jme discuss aging pets and supplements, medications and alternative treatments to try for your aging seniors.

Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!

Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!

Transcript

0:52

Hi, I'm Pate., I'm Jme. We are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue. And this is our podcast, Rescue Shit. Join us today as we discuss, what's our topic today? Today, we are going to talk about the aging process with dogs and cats and some of the supplements that can help them have a better quality of life as they get older. Other treatments too, alternative treatments. Alternative treatments, which we have experience with. You are going to be the expert on the supplements. When we're talking about, you know, the typical ones that people have heard of, we know about glucosamine and chondroitin and MSM is also up there. Why don't you talk about those two, even though they're the most common that people might know about. Let's, let's talk about those and their applications. Right. So as our animals age, they can develop osteoarthritis, they get the stiff joints, their mobility lessens, or it can lessen as you get older. I mean, same with us people, right? And some of the supplements that we use for the animals are similar to what we use for our own joints, which is the glucosamine Chondroitin. With the M msm. Mm-hmm. Some supplements are just glucose mean. Some of them are glucosamine and chondroitin, and some of'em have the glucose mean Chondroitin and MSM for those who are thinking about cost-effective ways of getting the supplement. Costco has one that it's called Cosequin, which has a glucose main conjoint and an MSM together. That is great for your joints, for a dog's joints and a cat's joints. I think Cosequin though at Costco is just for dogs, but you can get that supplement for cats as well. That helps with the mobility. It helps lubricate their joints, helps with their ligaments and their tendons. That's a very beneficial supplement. Well, and you might be surprised to think that a dog that's seven or eight is considered senior. I mean that's like 50 or going on 60 in human years. I would say seven is usually when you start to see the changes. I think that's most common in Especially larger breeds. Yes. And yeah, larger breeds are going to have probably more significant issues with these kinds of things. Whereas little dogs are, you know, they're lightweight. And, um, we talk about, you know, little dogs often have problems with their patellas, their knees, and their teeth. And big dogs often have problems with their hips and joints m ore than anything else. Right. You, you worry about like hip dysplasia and elbow dysplasia in the larger dogs more so than the smaller dogs. Mm hmm. Doesn't mean that they can't get it, but it's more common with the larger breeds. Well in an injury or a break to a bone or a joint is likely to cause early, early onset of arthritis, osteoarthritis. When we're talking to people who are like, well, how is this going to impact their mobility? And we're like, well, they're gonna get arthritis earlier, your dog's gonna get arthritis anyway, so it's not that much of a deterrent. It's almost guaranteed that they will get arthritis. Yeah, especially if you are lucky enough to have them live a long life, they're, they are going to experience that. Very few people I would say are scared by that, but some are, and you know, maybe they're the ones with the very active lifestyles, but your dog's still gonna get arthritis at some point. Right, yeah, you'll notice. I mean, people will start doing the supplements as the dogs start slowing down. You notice that it takes a little bit longer for them to get up. But when we have a puppy, for example, who has an amputation, or a broken bone, or anything like that, that affects their joints and their bones, they get started on the glucosamine condroitin supplements right away. We do a combination, as well as just the glucosamine chondroitin because that helps at one part and then you've got your omegas that help with another part of, healing the healing, the joint lubrication, So that's the omega 3, 6, and 9. Correct. It not only helps the coat and skin, but it's got fatty acids, healthy fats, heart and brain health, joint lubrication. It reduces inflammation. These are all things that Pate told me that I'm just listing because she knows more than me. We use the Grizzly brand. Yeah. Grizzly product has, the combination of the omega three, six, nine. A lot of people know, Oh yeah, I'll do omega threes. And I was like, well, what about your six and nine? So it's better to do your omega 3, 6, 9 than just one of the omegas. That's certainly more cost effective. When it comes to joint. Mm hmm. What about green lipped mussel? So that's one I'm not really familiar with and, you can do it for both dogs and cats. All of these things you can do for both dogs and cats. Why don't you talk about green lipped mussel a little bit? Green lipped mussel is something that's newer. It comes from New Zealand. And I would say, like, not even five years ago we didn't talk about green lip muscles, really. Like I said, it's a newer thing that's very effective with your joints. And, it's a mussel, M U S S E L, it is marine wildlife, I guess you want to call it. I've seen mussel on the menu at many places, so I know that people eat mussels as well. But this is a specific type of mussel that is grown in New Zealand it helps with everything that the glucosamine and chondroitin and the omegas help with. There's Super Snouts, which is, a brand, and they have a green lip muscle powder. And that's like, that's, like you said, it's good for cats and dogs. And, um, it, again, it helps with the inflammation, the joint mobility, the, the lubrication of your joints. It helps with hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, it helps with the arthritis as well, because that's the inflammation that you have to worry about that causes the pain. And it can actually help with the pain as well to an extent. There's medications like Galloprant, which is Good for pain and it has fewer side effects than say carprofen Which is Rimadyl which is Rimadyl that can have liver effects. Yeah whereas like Galloprant, it's effective, but has fewer side effects. And those are prescription medications. Prescriptions. That's, you know, going back to a more traditional route. Right. We found that osteoarthritis is gonna be the number one, cause of chronic pain in dogs, and that greater than one in five dogs are going to have this kind of pain. All of these things can benefit people as well. So if you're feeling a little creaky you might want to give these things a try. but we of course want to give our animals, especially if they are injured and healing we want to give them the best opportunities that we can. Moving on to you know, the next thing We could talk about CBD. Why don't you talk about just some of your experiences with CBD and the the rescue animals? Well, I think it's funny that we do get samples of CBD and a lot of the samples that we get Are lower dosed. Yeah, it's like water. Yeah Yeah, pretty much and then you know, and then when you have the edibles like here give your dog this biscuit And my dog is a 90 pound Shepherd Malamute mix. And so I'm like, here Heath, take the entire bag. Not cost effective. Not cost effective. Not, you know, it's just not that effective in general because he really doesn't need to eat an entire bag of biscuits. So Jme did actually, you did a lot of research on the different CBD, tonics. Yeah, I got into it because of Zelda. For those of you who don't know, I had a little terrier and she was put on a heating pad during her dental surgery and the heating pad malfunctioned and she basically roasted like she was put on a grill. It is too common actually of a problem. We should probably dedicate a whole episode to that. But. It is not the right tool for that process, that procedure. There are other safer tools, but for whatever reason that day, the vet tech did something she never does. She went to a drawer, they never open, grabbed this heating pad and cooked my dog to death. Before that though, when we were, you know, discovering what was going on with her she was on a lot of narcotics and, you know, she would still cry and whine she would try and sit down then she'd pop back up and the poor thing was so tired and the drugs were just not doing it for her. And, I tried some CBD and she was able to lay down and sleep. And I was like, wow, okay, all those narcotics and that didn't help her, but, and she was on the max dose of everything, but, you know, here she is with the CBD and she was able to sleep. And thankfully, she was like an eight pound dog, so I could give her even five treats and it's not gonna break the bank. But I do remember thinking it was kind of a ridiculous amount of treats, it seemed like. And that's for a small dog. But so I started to get really interested in this and and how effective it was. And yes, my poor dog died. But I started thinking, well, maybe this can help. Me, too, with some of the, the pain that I have, and, it also helps with anxiety and some other things. And so I started trying it and trying the pet kind and um, and then I obviously, you know, tried some humankind. But then, we tried these samples and and it was very inconsistent. At first we kind of weren't really sure why, but you know, a dose that's basically like one tiny bit of CBD and then the whole bottles oil. I mean, you're wasting your money. And so we we actually Talked to a farm in Colorado that grows their own, pot or whatever, and, and they were, making this, tincture. Marijuana. Yeah, well, and, and there's CBD that comes from hemp and there's CBD that comes from marijuana, so you can do different ones. But, anyway, it doesn't get you high, I can tell you that much. I worked with them and came up with a formula that was really effective and we had a few animals that had terrible anxiety and wow, it really toned them down. So one I can think of a cat that was peeing and was being really angry, super angry. And we gave her the CBD and she turned into like the nicest cat ever. So what was it? She was in pain? Did she have anxiety? We're not really sure, but it was literally like magic for that cat. And then what was the dog's name that had the crazy eyes? The Catahoula mix little dog. And she was diabetic. Chloe. Yeah. Chloe. I mean, this dog was Jumping over fences, trying to go through windows. Yeah, well, I mean she, she was deaf. She was deaf and she had separation anxiety. Yeah, because, yeah, when I first started bringing her to the daycare, if I left the room, she would jump through the windows. Yeah. I mean the windows were open, primarily. Unlike the other Catahoula, who's deaf, who jumped through a window. Yes, that's the one we currently have named, Clint. But he's not diabetic. No. So this dog had separation anxiety terribly. And we started giving her the CBD and it worked really well. And I remember when she got adopted her mom was like, well, we'll try weaning her off and she let it run out And then she called and she was like, oh my god, I need some CBD and she continued to buy it from us for a while for a while And then after that, I you know, I'm not sure I'm not sure if she keeps her on it I'm not sure if she just bought a different kind. She passed away. Oh Cuz she she had juvenile diabetes And so when you have juvenile onset diabetes, it's not like an older dog who gets diabetes. Uh, they just have a shortened lifespan. I did not know that. Yeah, so sadly, so sadly she did pass away. Okay. Well, that's But she had a great, loving life. She did. And her mom just loved her to pieces. Just, and so it was very hard. Yeah. Yeah, that's terrible. Thankfully she adopted her knowing that that was going to happen. I didn't really think about it, which kind of diabetes and that, how that could really affect her life. So we did, you know, extensive, you know, unofficial experimentation with it, both in people, and, our rescue animals, and it really has done wonders for so many of them, I guess you should say informal research. What did I say? Rather than experimentation. Oh, informal, yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't give anything to my animal that I wouldn't be willing to eat. So, I was for sure gonna try it and see what it was like. I remember, We had some people that wanted to surrender their peeing cats and we were like no one's going to take your peeing cats because You hate pee and so does everybody else and you know, they're your cats. You've had them from babies Why would someone jump in to adopt, a peeing cat and obviously, you know, we don't say that like in a mean way But that's just the reality. That's the reality is that a peeing cat is Not a cat you can rehome. Right if you're having issues other people are gonna have issues and they don't have that background of love that you've had for years. They came in and got a sample and, and we do give free samples. So, if you email us with your address and your dog or cat's weight, then we can dose that out for you. We do appreciate a 5 donation to help us offset the cost of shipping, but this is something that we, We want to provide to introduce people to an effective dose and effective brand that really works Because so many really don't because they're meant to profit they just want to profit We want to really help animals, but so these people came in with their little kids and the cat They got CBD for their cats and when they would come back they're like, We need Jme's magic juice. That's what the kids called it, which I thought was hilarious. But they're like, It's magic and it makes our cats happy. Far more often than not, it really does work. And typically the worst thing is that they're just going to fall asleep if you give them too much. They're just going to get dopey. Sometimes cats are the opposite. Their metabolism is just different and it's kind of like when people take CBD Not everyone responds to it the same way. Just because everyone has metabolizes drugs, food, you know, I mean, you can metabolize cheese. I can't, I. Digest. Non metabolize. Same thing. Exactly. But, I mean, everyone's different, so our body reacts differently to different things. And that's the same with cats and dogs. Some dogs, super effective. Some dogs, it doesn't work. Some dogs need more. Some dogs need less. And that's the thing with cats, too, is that sometimes they go the opposite extreme. Instead of chilling out, it may make them hyper. What we found in maybe one in 30 or 40 animals, it works oppositely. My housemate, she adopted a dog from us and he has an extremely high level of anxiety. Um, the, when the message comes in on your phone and it pings, That freaks him out. Any kind of dinging, typewriter dinging, anything. He'll start shaking. So, you know, he has extreme anxiety. And, man, we Okay, we gave him CBD. And he was like manic, running around like a little insane guy on speed or something. So it didn't work for him. But you know, the 25 other animals that we tried it on, it did work for. Which is why we do the samples. Yes, exactly. Because why spend a lot of money on something that you don't know if it's going to work. And if you don't know what you're doing, and you don't know how much to give and all this, Like, yeah, why waste your money? So we really want to help people discover. An effective brand that is cost effective that you could maintain and continue on but let's kind of go back to the fact that if you're dealing with an older dog, Sundowners. Well, yeah, if they're in pain or they're having cognitive, functional disabilities, this can help them. It really can help them. Especially because pain equals grumpy. So you might have a dog that was always a really happy around other people, other animals, and then maybe they're getting cranky and then there, maybe they've snapped at a new puppy or a person or something like that because they're in pain. CBD can really help with that. And, and take that down a few notches. And make them just feel at ease in their own skin. And that's something that I, talk about too with dogs that are just like over the top. Maybe because they were bred that way. You know, some dogs are super intense, but they can't be happy in...Niall. Yes, he's a great example. They can't be happy in their skin. Because they don't have a job. We're just putting them in our apartments or our houses or even if we exercise them for a million miles a week. They're just so high strung and they can't really be happy because they can't settle. There's no job for them Yeah, working breed. Oh and and even if even if you could they could work themselves to death, right? You know like so the intensity of a German Shepherd and their alertness and the constant You know kind of whining under their breath like, you know, that's a dog that is experiencing anxiety all the time. And so This can really help but then you add that aging and the pain on top of it and, it makes a difference. So we always suggest trying it. And our favorite dose is a thousand milligrams per ounce or 30 milliliters. That is the most bang for your buck that you can pretty much get. And you can use it for Both pain and anxiety. Um, and usually it's given at a dose of 2mg per lb. We have a chart, you tell us your pet's weight, and then we will, give you the target dose and give you some instructions on, how to go up or down if you think it's a little too much or not helping enough, um, it's very easy and very flexible to do that, and, you know, a little dog might take a lot, a big dog might take a little, so you, you do have to experiment a little and not, you know, not just give up right away, give it a couple weeks, You definitely need to play with the dosing. We typically dose mid range, right? And then that gives you leeway to go up higher. Mm hmm. And the sample we give you is two milliliters, so it won't last a big dog very long if you do it for a couple of days consecutively. But it could last a little dog, a few weeks. Or cat a few weeks and you can see if that helps. But certainly that's something you should consider, especially before rehoming your animal, for some kind of behavioral problem or euthanizing them for pain. If you have any questions, you can also email us at rescueshit@motleyzoo.org. And I'd be happy to answer any questions about that. I'm not a vet. But I am very experienced and we have, many, many, many animals and different kinds of species that we've tried it on before, too. And we've had a lot of success. Yes, a far more success than, you know, people who are like, ah, it didn't work. Most people come back and buy a bottle, but you know, a full bottle is about 100. Mm hmm. So that's why it's like It's a big investment for something that may or may not work, which is why we do the samples. So yeah, we want you to try it in hopes that it really works for you. So one of the, the other things that we could talk about are, acupuncture and cold laser for pain and inflammation. Why don't you maybe do a little bit about cold laser? Cold laser are LEDs, which is a light, you target a specific area. It's like a wand. Yeah, yeah. And I would only recommend having, a professional and do it because it's, it's a laser and it may be cold to the touch, but it can overheat the tissue depending on if you're not doing it properly. Cause I know that you can definitely buy like your own cold laser. It's very expensive. Isn't it? Yeah. But you can still buy it, you know? I just wouldn't recommend it because you can actually burn your dog for lack of a better word. Or cat. But it, Has shown effectiveness in, Reducing inflammation and then what else? Increasing cell health. Yeah. Blood circulation. Yeah. Improvement. Yeah, and that's an alternative method that can also help, decrease any like dependence on medication such as like carprofen or things like that. So you could do cold laser therapy and if it's effective not medicate. So it's you know can help with liver and kidneys etc. Yeah, and anecdotally most people that have tried it do feel like it has improved their quality of life for their pets? there's red laser and blue laser and I have experience with this because I found a squirrel who was paralyzed and You're not supposed to have squirrels. I don't have him but I wanted to give him a chance and see if I could help him overcome so I actually started doing acupuncture and cold laser with him and it was the first squirrel and probably the last that the vet would ever see. You can probably imagine that doing acupuncture on any pet might be a little bit hard, but it was interesting because he grew to like it. The first time he was scared and he, tried to bite me, after that though when I put the gloves on he would just come up to me and he would relax. And she would always start by putting one pin in his forehead and he would close his eyes and he would look up and he would let her do that and then She would do the other pins and She'd feel along his spine and try and find The pressure points and things like that and there were some that made him want to kick and do things and it was funny But he loved it. Um, I mean that's the acupuncture not the therapy. Well the light therapy. I haven't gotten there yet Yeah, so we would do the acupuncture and And I would have to hold him for about 15, 10, 15 minutes. I don't think squirrels ever sit for 10 or 15 minutes. And he would. He was a good little boy and he would sit there and then we would take them out and then she would do the cold laser. I can't remember if it was the red for this or blue for that. I want to say it was red for the muscles. And she would go over, his legs and his back, and he would visibly, like, relax. And so he liked it. And then, he had a little, like an injury on his leg, and she would use the blue one for that, for healing. It did improve his mobility. It did not cure him of his, lack of best use of his legs. So he could never hop. It didn't matter. He had crazy strong forearm strength. Like he climbed everywhere. He was like a gymnast and he would swing around the branches. In the end he got tangled in his blankets and somehow he hurt himself. irreparably, and so we had to let him go. But it was interesting because I've tried acupuncture myself, and I find it helps. People do it differently. So I've had, you know, some that is more subtle than others, and some that's, you know, way more like, whoa. Not painful, but just different feeling. We have done acupuncture before on some of our older dogs, And didn't we do it on a cat too? I feel like we did. Yeah, I think we did. I'm trying to think of what cat it was. I remember it was Grasshopper the dog. But it was a very good, mild mannered cat. Yeah, and I don't remember what it was for, but I'm pretty sure we did it for a cat too. Was it Bob? I don't know. I've heard people that say it's very effective for them, and other people say it's not. Mm-hmm I mean, my husband is a person who's, I call him the nocebo person because he can't tell if anything ever works. I'm like, that doesn't mean it didn't work. You just, you don't want to commit to saying it works. So I do think that for a lot of people, between that and the cold laser, those are, are things that do work for many pets. And, you know, nothing is a, you know, blanket gonna work for everybody all the time. Um, it's the same with what, like diets and exercise mm-hmm And, and all sorts of other things. So, you know, people are different, animals are different. Right. We've tried the CBD with the squirrel, and Bunny, that had an injury. Also, in our kennels, we ask our clients when they come in, are you interested in, CBD if your dog needs it. And we put it in a pill pocket and we call it the gushers. Fruit gushers. Fruit gushers. And so, yeah, a lot of people maybe haven't had experience with it before, but we talk to them about it, and I would say most of the clients do say yeah, totally go ahead and try it, if their pet is having anxiety. Especially if your dog's never been boarded for it before and you don't know how they're going to handle it, CBD can be great. Yeah, just takes that little edge off. It doesn't change their mindset or anything like that. It just gives them a little, a little bit of a calming so that they can, like process what's going around them instead of just being so fearful. Yeah, it increases feelings of well being. And, you know, if you A little zen. Yes. If you want to get scientific, our brains actually have receptors for CBD and we make it. We make a certain kind of CBD in our bodies, animals, people. So adding the CBD can ensure that more of the receptors get the CBD, And it just kind of makes you feel nice and it doesn't make you feel drugged out. Like, I would so much rather try CBD than Trazodone on a dog. I hear a lot of groomers prefer CBD over Trazodone. Just because Trazodone can sometimes have that Like weird effect. It makes them unpredictable. And then just flat out like, oooohhh, and they can't stand up. One of the other things, it's not a alternative medication, but we could talk a little bit about gabapentin. It's good for pain. It's, it's for neurologic pain, it really is effective for a lot of the, the older dogs, but that's a prescription versus a supplement. Cause we had discussed supplements before that you could just like start giving your dogs, whatever. There's, like I said, the Galloprant, which is an anti inflammatory. The Gabapentin helps, for neurologic pain. We as adults, we as adults, we as people, yeah, humans. We take gabapentin as well. I mean, I actually, I can't take gabapentin. I, I do, I do take gabapentin. So for, you know, um, post surgery, yeah, post surgery. And I'll tell you that, that like knocked me out. But again, everyone's different, right? So my husband took gabapentin and he was fine. I, was still tired the next day. So, um, but that effect for the dogs, it can, decrease anxiety for cats. If your cats are nasty at the vet, you give them gabapentin the night before, gabapentin the day of, and they may not try to kill the vet. Always a good thing. Yeah. Right. So that, I mean, so it's got, dual benefits and same thing with dogs, you know, give them gabapentin before you go to the vet. Samantha my mini Aussie, no, I didn't get a mini Aussie on purpose. She was a hoarding situation. It was a, it was a horrible hoarding situation. And, uh, she lived her life in a cage and was only out once to get impregnated. And she was pregnant at nine months because, um, That's what this hoarder. No, it wasn't hoarding. It was backyard breeding. Well, it was a little of both Well, I mean cuz he had a lot of like a hundred dogs It was way too many barn like stacked on crates and this was the second time they got him wasn't it? I thought it was a third. Oh, and we're like, come on like come on. Many Aussies are supposed to be like 35 pounds everyone thinks that these tiny little Many Aussies Those should be toy mini Aussies, because an actual mini Aussie is like 35 pounds, because a standard Aussie is like 60, right? He started out, like the older dogs that we got, that were like 8 years or whatever, were like typical mini Aussie size, 35 pounds. And the younger ones, They were getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And so we had Samantha, who was supposed to be named after the Crow. She was supposed to be named Shelly. Shelly Webster. But she decided to give birth to three females. Was Samantha from, Samantha Jones, Sex and the City. Yeah. I've never seen that. That's not my type of show. No, but you have those four females and now I'm stuck with the dog names Samantha Jones and I'm not even a fan. Whereas I'm a fan of the crow. So if she'd thrown out some boys we could have had you know a crow thing going on and she would be Shelly Webster. But nonetheless, she's shown her age. She's very stiff legged. She is on the supplements and gabapentin definitely you see a difference with her with the gabapentin before it would be really hard to walk just a little short stint, like a block around, the city, like a city block and That brings up the point too that, keeping their weight down is really important when your dogs have arthritis and joint issues. Well, keeping them mobile, make them move. Yeah, mobile and keeping their weight down. So, being heavy, that's not going to be good for them. No. And then, yeah, keeping them mobile. It's like pressure on their joints. It's really use it or lose it, and the same is true for people. If you start sitting down and you don't do activity, you're going to get stiff and tight, and that's why you get some people that are like 100 years old and they're freaking doing gymnastics or something. There was like a lady who was in her 90s and she was still doing gymnastics. Really? Yeah, I was like, wow, okay, she's got flexibility, I don't even know I have it. I can't even touch my toes, so. Cool. Frankly, I worry about myself because my hip problem does limit my mobility and it prevents me from wanting to do certain things, even taking my dogs for a walk a lot. And so that's why I really want to get it fixed because. You know, let's say I only have 25 or 30 years left in my life. I really I want it I want to be doing stuff I want to go be hiking and you know be out in the world and surfing and snowboarding And I've been feeling like I'm 80 and I'm not even close. Yeah. So yeah, I mean Samantha is older and she is on the glucosamine chondroitin. She's on the green lip muscle And she has gabapentin at night, just cause she's got, a touch of mini Aussie sundowners, that little girl, she, she, she angry at night if you don't run around the property, and this is a five acre property. Explain sundowners a little bit more. Um, Like because it happens to people too. It's like, it's doggy dementia basically and so they get a little more anxious a little more upset for lack of a better word restless and Demanding and and it's called that because it happens at night at night. Exactly. So during the day they could be fine They could be sleeping. Everything's great. And then as the Sun goes down hence the name they start showing these behaviors that are, dementia. Like, we see them start panting, start, pacing, you know? So she's starting to have a little bit of dementia, but I mean girlfriend needs her schedule and every night she demands. To go outside and I don't patrol. Yeah, she does have a little patrol I'm like dude, you're you're like 20 pounds, but that's part of her herding instinct, you know, she's a herding dog and so now when it comes down to it, she's like she's got to express her instinct and Yeah, so it's it's really important to consider You know how helpless your your pets are and what you can really do to help them. She went from not being able to walk a block in the city, to running around at night. She is mobile now and these supplements do help and the gabapentin helps her I don't know if she's having any neurologic pain, but she's definitely not as stiff and she, she definitely does relax at night. So. Well sometimes you don't know if they're having neurologic pain and the only way you can figure it out is if you, talk to your vet and say, Hey, can we try gabapentin for this? Okay, we're wrapping up. I was going to say gabapentin, but we're not. We're wrapping up aging in pets. And some ways that you can help them. Yes. Supplements and alternative treatments. If there's a supplement or alternative treatment that you've tried, or that didn't work for you, and you know, you want to talk about it, you can email us at rescueshit@motleyzoo.org and tell us what you think or give us some ideas for other episodes. Well, I'm Jme. I'm Pate. This is Motley's Zoo Animal Rescue. And this is our podcast Rescue Shit. Rock on. You'd think we would have this down by now. It's like, I think it's my fault. I think I do it wrong every time. But is there a right or wrong way? Yeah, I don't know. You can start. Rock on. Rescue on. Woof!