This episode is about the many reasons we (and shelters) receive pets from owners who cannot keep their animals any longer. The list is long! While surrender is one way to solve a problem the animals are not always rehomable- or the problems people are experiencing have relatively simple solutions. We help the families get clarity on the next steps- especially whether surrender is required or if some help is all they need.
This week's Adoptable Roadie is Mark Ikagami, aka Ick. He is a really sweet, shy guy who would love an experienced handler and a new dog friend to grow with.
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
This episode is about the many reasons we (and shelters) receive pets from owners who cannot keep their animals any longer. The list is long! While surrender is one way to solve a problem the animals are not always rehomable- or the problems people are experiencing have relatively simple solutions. We help the families get clarity on the next steps- especially whether surrender is required or if some help is all they need.
This week's Adoptable Roadie is Mark Ikagami, aka Ick. He is a really sweet, shy guy who would love an experienced handler and a new dog friend to grow with.
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
Yo. This is Pate.
jme:And I'm Jme.
Pate:And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue, and this is our podcast
jme:Rescue Shit. This week we're going to talk about surrendering animals. This is one of the ways that animals come to us, and we're gonna talk a little bit about some of the reasons people, end up wanting to give their animals away.
Pate:The majority of the animals that we get come from shelters or other rescues. Many of them are medical needs. Sometimes the vet calls. Because they have a medical need in the ER, for example. So that's the majority of our animals is from the shelters and rescues that we help. But a small portion that we take in our owner surrenders.
jme:One of our least favorite reasons people give for giving up an animal is moving. I am moving to an apartment that doesn't allow dogs and I can't take my husky. There's about a billion huskies in the shelter right now. Well, you have to find a place that's gonna take your Husky or I don't know what you're gonna do. Like literally, I don't know. So what do you have to say about that?
Pate:Well, obviously part of the problem with the breed restrictions is that it's such a general blanket for apartment complexes. I think that if more people train their animals and more people got, as much as I don't like the AKC, the CGC is a really valid, training guideline.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:And to how to train these dogs to be good citizens, right? So I think like apartment complexes or landlords or whatever should, if a dog is CGC certified, kind of like waive that whole like, breed restriction thing.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:That's a personal opinion.
jme:But most of the time the animals aren't that well behaved and that's part of the problem.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Because if they were well behaved, then they would be keeping them and they would be finding a home that would let them in because they would be a good dog. It's a convenient way to say I didn't train my dog and I'm moving now...
Pate:But sometimes apartments, I mean, look at the apartments around here. How many allow pets and how many allow pets without a weight restriction.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:You know, and then Huskies are again, like a breed that is restricted, for example.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:They're on the list of restrictions cuz of a, they love to sing except mine is defective and doesn't make a noise. And actually Axl is being quiet for him, but at night he sings like a mother.
jme:He's actually being really good.
Pate:But t hey have certain breed restrictions, based on, I guess like vocalization, destructiveness, and, quote unquote aggression. But if people trained their dogs and had CGCs...
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:And things like that I think landlords should take that into consideration because you can have an untrained ESA(emotional support animal). But as long as you have that note from the doctor that says that I need an emotional support animal for whatever medical reason, landlords have to let you.
jme:Well, and that's a whole other episode on its own... I wanna say that there are people that are moving for legitimate financial reasons and they've lost their home, or they've lost their job and like we are not minimizing their situation, nor are we judging them for that. But a lot of times that is not the situation.
Pate:Yeah. Right. How many times have, I mean, how many times have we moved with animals?
jme:Right. Exactly.
Pate:I mean, I moved from Florida to Washington.
jme:Yeah.
Pate:I mean, we drove in a Suburban,(yeah) with three cats, two ferrets, three dogs, and two kids.
jme:Mm-hmm. And that's what a rescuer would do. But that is not what most people would do.
Pate:No reason why you can't, if I can do it, you can too..
jme:Right. Exactly. And we're talking about the majority of the times when it's not because of some really serious problem that they can't resolve or there's also like I'm leaving my abusive relationship.
Pate:Yeah.
jme:And I can't take my dog cuz I don't...
Pate:Because the women's shelters won't let you.
jme:Right. And I don't even know where I'm gonna be. Of course.(mm-hmm) that happens and we've helped those people and we tell them contact us when you get safe and if we still have your animal then great, you can take them back, but if not, we have to adopt them out.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Like that's the process. We have to be doing that. And they understand that, and they're willing to give up their animals because they want what's best for them.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:And they need to figure out what they're gonna do with themselves. And so this is not like we have no pity or understanding or, or compassion for people in terrible situations.
Pate:Right.
jme:It's quite the opposite.
Pate:Right.
jme:It's that most of the time people aren't in those situations or they've neglected to take care of the situation first and then their emergency becomes our problem. And that's hard because nothing happens quickly, really, in rescue. And we need to find a, a home for your animal. And then when you tell us that it has all these problems that you've never dealt with that's gonna be a hard thing to find a foster home for.
Pate:Right.
jme:And then, a lot of times too, we'll say, I'm sorry, the shelter is gonna be the fastest. That's not even true anymore. It used to be, right?
Pate:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
jme:It used to be the fastest, but right now it's like...
Pate:The adoptions are low.
jme:Yeah. It's like a four to six week waiting list(yeah) for anybody to surrender a dog.
Pate:Which is crazy.
jme:It is crazy. Then a lot of people are like, well, I don't want my dog to be in a shelter. Well, you also can't really pick or choose because...
Pate:Yeah.
jme:I'm sorry.
Pate:You're giving up your dog. I don't want your dog in a shelter either. I'd rather your dog stay with you.
jme:Right. That's exactly it. So moving is a tough one but there are a lot of people who chronically rehome their pets when they move and I would say even cats, which I don't really get, like people who rehome their cats when they move.
Pate:Because you're just like, oh, you know, if I move then whatever, I'm not even gonna try.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:Hmm.
jme:Well, what about allergies? I would say this is more common with cats than with dogs And
Pate:that's a legitimate thing, right? You have a baby and then the baby is allergic. That's a medical condition.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:I don't wanna say it's a valid excuse compared to others, but I mean, it's a medical condition that that could it could have ramifications on a child's health. Right?
jme:Yeah. I mean, we're not trying to judge the reasons, we're just giving the reasons.
Pate:Right.
jme:It's definitely one that is understandable and I guess reasonable more...
Pate:Well because it's not a behavioral issue.
jme:I'm not saying that if your kid's allergic that you should continue to do this, b ut kids that grow up with pets actually tend to have less allergies than those that don't. So getting rid of your pets before you have a kid, just for the sake of that is not a good idea.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:I remember one lady, she was like, I'm about to have a baby and the litter box is dirty and I don't want my child crawling on the same floor as the cat where the cat walks. And I was like, that's not okay at all.
Pate:Your kid's gonna be dirty as hell. Yeah. Don't take it to a daycare then.
jme:Right? Like your kid's going to eat dirt. And you
Pate:And I can say that cuz I'm a parent. Kids are dirty.
jme:Yeah. Litter boxes are, they're not clean, but they're cleaner than a lot of places that your kids are gonna put their hands in...
Pate:Sandbox.
jme:Mouth and everything. So, you know, that's a really skewed concept. That's a bad idea. And, and that's not Okay.
Pate:Here's a thought. Clean your litter box.
jme:Yeah.
Pate:You know, I mean, Baby gate. Hello.
jme:Yeah. I don't remember what she said and I said it very nicely.
Pate:Mm-hmm. I was gonna say, remember there was this family had surrendered multiple animals to us because their child was allergic and they kept trying different things.
jme:Yes.
Pate:With the kid...
jme:The hairless cat. A dog...
Pate:Uhhuh.
jme:Two dogs, right?
Pate:Yeah, yeah.
jme:Two dogs. Yeah. And the woman kept buying, dog buying pets.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Like at thousands and thousands of dollars...
Pate:Because they're quote unquote hypoallergenic, and it's like, okay, you realize the fur maybe, but I think your kid's allergic to the saliva, which is not gonna help no matter how hypoallergenic an animal is.
jme:No, and I mean, if it's that bad, it's probably not even just a pet either. It's probably so many other things too.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:That was one that really kind of blew our mind. But yeah, she just kept buying animals like they were shoes and then trying them out and then giving them to us.
Pate:Yeah.
jme:Yeah. That wasn't a good one.
Pate:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Another reason why people will surrender their dogs is because they've had their dog for years, but they just had a baby. And now the dog doesn't appreciate the baby. This is one of the harder surrender requests because I've been there and so it's kind of hard for me to understand why you'd want to get rid of your dog because you had a baby. Some of the excuses are they don't have enough time for their dog, but a dog would prefer half an hour of your time a day rather than be stuck in a shelter or possibly even a new home.
jme:They think the grass is greener somewhere else. They want to kid themselves into thinking there's a better home that's gonna give more love to the dog that they've had for 10 years.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:That's not true.
Pate:No.
jme:You're gonna give your dog the most love. You are invested in them, good and bad, and especially if your dog has problems, they are only the bad problem to anyone else. No one sees the 99% of good...
Pate:Right.
jme:That history, that you know and have with them. You are the only one that sees their value.
Pate:And, and not everyone will surrender their dog because they have a baby, o bviously because there's a lot of dogs with babies, but it's a matter of perspective. And yes, right after you have a kid, you're tired. I mean, the dog's probably tired too because he hasn't gotten a full night's sleep either because of the baby crying.
jme:Well, and I think when it gets even harder is when the dog is grumbling. Or avoiding the child.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Or snapping at the child.
Pate:It's a toddler phase, because you know, the kids are now mobile. They have no idea what they're doing half the time. It's your job to train your child to respect boundaries.
jme:Well, and there are ways to safely manage that...
Pate:Baby gate.
jme:Yes. If you need to use a baby gate, if you need to put a muzzle on your dog, put a basket muzzle on your dog.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:So that your dog can't hurt your kid, no matter what your kid is doing until they learn how to behave.
Pate:Right. When you're rehoming your dog, because it is not getting along with your toddler, your child, that's not always fixing the problem because there's also dog bites that occur from other dogs because the moral of the story is that children need to be trained. They need to be taught how to behave around dogs.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:They need to learn how to, approach dogs appropriately. They need to learn boundaries with animals, and we see this often that kids are not that... I mean, like an example about how our next door neighbor at the Redmond facility, the kid ran across a parking lot to approach two big ass dogs.
jme:Yeah. One is like almost 200 pounds.
Pate:Exactly. And that child never should have done that. My kids learned never to do that.
jme:Well, never mind when the dog kind of lunged towards the kid, just barking.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:He pulled the person down, the trainer, right down. And the parent in that situation...
Pate:Wasn't even near The kid.
jme:Wasn't near the kid didn't look and didn't ask if our trainer was okay. So here she is on the ground, she's hurt.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:And they just walked away.
Pate:And the thing is, is that she told that child do not come. That, you know, don't, don't come here. Like, stay back.
jme:Yeah. The trainer said back, said, stay back. Stop.
Pate:Yeah.
jme:And he wouldn't stop.
Pate:No, he, he didn't. And he is lucky that she got dragged but held on to the leashes. If she had dropped the leash and something had happened, that kid trespassed, but the dogs would've been at fault.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:Because that kid was not taught how. To actually not approach strange dogs.
jme:Right?
Pate:Children need to learn boundaries. They need to learn how to walk up to someone to ask if they can pet a dog. If someone tells them to stay back. From the dogs, they need to respect that as well.
jme:I find sometimes kids are smarter than adults about asking to pet people's dogs and stuff. And so if it's a dog they don't know, kids will often ask, can I pet your dog? Which is great because, we had a woman once at an adoption event and one of my volunteer colleagues was holding this little dog, and the dog was snarling at the lady. And the lady kept trying to get her face closer and closer and closer to this snarling dog. And the girl put her hand over the dog's face and she's like, Hey, back off like you're making this dog uncomfortable. And the woman's like, no, it's okay. I'm a nurse. And she's like, What? So you can stitch your own face when this dog bites you because you're not paying attention and watching its body language.
Pate:Yeah.
jme:Like what? I don't think she actually said that out loud, she said it later. But that's the thing is like this adult was completely ignoring all the warning signs and the volunteer had to advocate for the dog by turning the dog away, covering their head.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Which is great. That was a smart volunteer. You need to teach your kids how to behave appropriately. Yeah. And when you say, my kids can do anything to my dog, pull their ears. Pull their tail.
Pate:That's not okay.
jme:That is, that is not a brag.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:That is you being really, that's really bad...
Pate:Inappropriate parenting.
jme:That is you allowing your kid to do something that could potentially kill your dog.
Pate:Right. There was a video out of, I don't know, like a three-year-old, a four-year-old or whatever. I don't even know where his bloody parents were. And he had a water bottle in his hand. And he was running around and this guy had a pit bull and was, I don't know if he was doing a video of his dog or whatever. And then this kid just runs up, starts hitting the pit bull with this water bottle, and the owner, was like, what? And there's all these other adults in the background watching this happen. And the kid ran to another adult and hit their hands with this water bottle. And then after he did that, he ran back to the dog. And then the dog at that point was like, what? And turned around to snap at the kid because I'm sorry, stop hitting me. And the owner of the dog, he got in between and. And nothing happened to the kid, but this is an example of how inappropriate kids can be with dogs. If that pit bull had bitten that child, it would've been his fault, even though there's an adult there who let the kid hit his hands with the water bottle. I would've grabbed the kid and been like no, stay away from the dog.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:Like, why didn't the kid even go back to the dog for the second time?
jme:Mm-hmm. Well, I would've definitely grabbed my dog after the first time I would've been running in. Yeah.
Pate:Well, the kid ran away. But that's, that's another thing is that in the social media thread, people were blaming the dog owner.
jme:Oh my God. Really?
Pate:Why would you have, yeah, why would you have an aggressive dog out where...
jme:Oh my God, they thought the dog was aggressive?
Pate:Yeah, he did not do a damn thing the first time he got hit. And, and that was the thing.
jme:It's definitely cuz it was a pit bull.
Pate:Yeah. But I mean.
jme:That's what people see that're people, people believe.
Pate:Yeah. The, the dog owner was inappropriate. He didn't advocate for his dog appropriately to let him get hit. And I'm sorry if he turned around and like pushed that kid away, he would've been in trouble.
jme:Yeah.
Pate:Instead of like, where was that kid's parents?
jme:Right.
Pate:And again, The blame is not being...
jme:Applied.
Pate:Yeah. Appropriately. Because the parent of that child who's like running around, in that video...
jme:Hitting things and people.
Pate:Right.
jme:And animals.
Pate:Yes. Where was that parent?
jme:That was the problem.
Pate:There were people that were like, okay, where the hell is a parent?
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:But these people saying that the owner of the dog was inappropriate, like they're the problem as well.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:Because we have to teach our children.
jme:Mm. Well, what's another issue that comes up with kids and dogs sleeping dogs and kids. Mm. That's a big one too.
Pate:There is a saying that says, let sleeping dogs lie, and there's a reason for that. It's not okay if someone tries to wake up a dog and the dog bites.
jme:Yeah.
Pate:Especially if you have an older dog, are they, are they losing their hearing? Do they have body aches? They don't need a little kid jumping on them, et cetera. But there are some people that just throw in the towel and say, it's not worth it.
jme:Yeah. Or they just instantly say, it's not safe.
Pate:Yeah.
jme:Well make it safe because...
Pate:Yeah.
jme:You've taken on and you've committed to for its lifetime.
Pate:Right.
jme:Obviously, if this is very severe, then first of all, you need help.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:You need help to manage it safely in the meantime, no matter what, because no one's gonna take your dog right away.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:At all.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:So you still need to learn how to manage it.
Pate:Right.
jme:And you might just find in learning how to manage it temporarily, that you can actually manage it much longer.
Pate:Right.
jme:And actually solve the problem and work through the problem.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:But because, you're like, well, it just needs a home without kids. Well, most fosters are not that home.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Like most fosters have other pets and other kids. So when people try and tell us that my dog would be great in a home without kids or other pets...
Pate:Great. Try to find us that home.
jme:Right. We don't have that. And adopters are just like you. They don't want a dog that has a bite history.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Even adults, even if there are no kids or other pets, they still don't want a dog that has a bite history.
Pate:Remember your dog with a bite history, you have history with that dog.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:Supposedly, I would hope that you loved your dog.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:And you should want to work with your dog. Whereas a total stranger, that's just a random dog(a random) with a bite history.
jme:Yeah. A random bad dog in their mind, they don't see any value, they don't see anything but what the dog did.
Pate:Right.
jme:And that's where, you know, rethinking your situation...
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Is the first place we start. And really, first of all is surrender really what you need to do?
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:And, and are there other ways to work with it? What are some of the other reasons that people contact us about surrendering their animals?
Pate:You got a new puppy and your current dog is not a fan of the puppy, so we need to get rid of the older dog so that we can keep this puppy.
jme:No, just, no. So that's when we have to tell people oh, we're sorry. Like the puppy is the adoptable one. Your old dog that trusts you and loves you and has been your beloved pet for 10 years, they get to stay with you because they're your old best friend and...
Pate:That's what you should be thinking anyway.
jme:Yeah. And so we will talk to them about the young adoptable puppy. You need to love and keep your old dogs and cats.
Pate:Adoption is for their life. You're looking at 10 to 20 years, depending on the age that you get them, the breed mix, et cetera. But a adoption is for their life. And even if you purchase a dog, it's for their life, not for your convenience because you wanted to get a new puppy that was cute. Well, and they're getting too old and they can't walk with you anymore. It's...
jme:I remember we had, and I don't know actually what happened to the situation, but one of our adopters wrote and said, you know, you said when the dog gets old and things get hard, that's when we should call you and give you the dog back. And we were like, that is not at all what we said. How did you slip through?
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:But they were trying to give us the dog now that it was old and having trouble walking and whatever happened with that.
Pate:They probably never responded back after we said, what the hell are you thinking?
jme:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Pate:I mean, we would've taken our older dog back, but
jme:Yeah. But like, that wasn't the point.
Pate:No. The point was...
jme:Why are you thinking like this?
Pate:Exactly. And like, things are hard, but you know what? You're gonna get older and is that how you wanna be treated? Because it's inconvenient.
jme:Yeah.
Pate:You know, they make adult diapers. Right. So...
jme:And I know we said that in the nicest of ways, like, maybe you wanna rethink this kind of thing.
Pate:I mean, it could have been like, they just had a really bad day and they got really stressed and overwhelmed. So...
jme:And that does happen.
Pate:It happens to everyone. Right? So you want to talk'em off the ledge first and see what the situation really is.
jme:And that's what we're trying to do all the time when people wanna surrender. Yeah. We're trying to assess the situation and our first thought is, Is it reasonable? And how can they keep this dog? Because they're just thinking they can't, and maybe it's cuz they don't want to. But the reality is, is that most people don't wanna surrender their animals. They really don't. They are frustrated. They feel like they can't do anymore. Most people aren't, aren't callously just trying to give away their animals. And so...
Pate:Sometimes.
jme:Well obviously sometimes.
Pate:All the seniors that get dumped at the shelter.
jme:Yeah. It's not, most people though, like, most people really do love their dogs and they want to keep them, but they feel like they can't. That's the email that I get more often when...
Pate:They hit a, they hit a point.
jme:Mm-hmm.
Pate:And they just need someone to show them a different way.
jme:Mm-hmm. Either offer suggestions and ideas of things that they haven't tried yet.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:Sometimes they're looking to, like, they'll describe a terrible situation or something that's extremely unsafe or very dangerous. And sometimes I'll say, I don't think anyone would blame you for considering, you know, cuz they'll say I have to take them to the vet. I don't know what else to do. If it's a super dangerous situation, like I would never advise anyone to euthanize their dog. But I also think when people come to us, they, they want the reality: is my dog even re homeable? And when we tell them no and it's hurt somebody or done something terrible, then they're just looking to know that it is okay that they don't let that continue. And so sometimes it's, I don't wanna say it's offering them permission, but it's holding their hand and telling them that in our professional experience...
Pate:You need to hold their hand.
jme:You need to hold their hand and let that go and let them go. But you need to be there. Like, that's the other thing is that you need to be there.
Pate:Yeah. Sometimes there are dogs who are not wired right. And no matter what you do, the management of their behavior. If they have extreme behaviors, then I mean, there is behavioral euthanasia for a reason.
jme:Mm-hmm. Especially for unpredictable reasons.
Pate:Right. But a, a lot of times some people say it's unpredictable when it's not. But then that's where we try to figure out is it really, a loose screw mm-hmm. Versus, um, a manageable situation.
jme:Well, and ultimately we're putting the ball back in their court because we are not gonna take your dog and find out if it should be euthanized. You need to make that decision.
Pate:Yeah. It's your family member.
jme:You need to be able to live with it. You need to be able to make that decision, and you need to be part of the process.
Pate:And the worst thing to do is drop it off at the shelter and make it someone else's problem.
jme:Yeah. Don't do that.
Pate:It's not fair to the dog
jme:Ever, ever, ever. First of all, most shelters do not give sedatives. So the animal is completely wide awake and aware, and they go into this scary situation. They're held down, and sometimes it's a struggle to get. The injection in and the dogs and the cats are terrified. The people are horrified. It's horrible. Who wants to do that job? Who wants to go day in and day out and hold animals down while they're terrified? And be euthanized.
Pate:Just spend a little more money and give them sedatives.
jme:Its, they can't, they can't, it, it's not their shelter's fault. I mean, we know shelters, they can't even afford to spay a neuter. They can't even afford to vaccinate. It's not their fault, the problem is people dropping the animals off and not taking accountability and responsibility for that. That person is traumatized for life. For every experience that they have, for all the experiences they have in the shelter, and they don't need more of that. And your dog doesn't need to be scared out of its mind with strangers.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:In the last moments of its life.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:You need to love your dog enough to be brave enough to take them and do that yourself when that is the conclusion that you come to.
Pate:I know that there are people who just cannot be in the room with their dog to comfort their dog. I'm sorry. I don't understand why.
jme:Well, someone in the family should, even if one person can't, someone needs to.
Pate:Right? I don't understand why. Because again, you've made it someone else's problem.
jme:Right. at the very least in that situation, take it to a vet. That they know, that they might know somebody there. They might know the building and hopefully not be afraid of it.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:At least try and make the dog familiar and insist that they have sedatives(right) so that the dog doesn't even know what's happening when it's happening to them.
Pate:Yeah. But.
jme:I, I agree with you.
Pate:Suck it up sunshine.
jme:Yeah. I, I know we can't use animals only when it's good for us and when it's convenient for us.
Pate:Mm-hmm. And sometimes, like pet ownership is hard. Yeah. And that's one of the hardest times. So.
jme:Well, and if you can't afford euthanization, And you feel that the shelter is an option, like maybe you can be there. I don't know. I don't know what the rules are.
Pate:I don't either.
jme:But it's a totally other thing if you really can't afford to euthanize or the euthanization is because the animal's suffering right now and you can't afford to take them to a vet or something like that. That's different than just taking your animal because you don't want to be there. But we actually had a potential adopter who had twice taken animals that she had in her life to the shelter to be euthanized...
Pate:And saw no problem with that.
jme:And yeah, and we were just like...
Pate:Yeah, no.
jme:I, I mean, we were nice about it because we were like, you probably don't know...
Pate:Jme was nice about it.
jme:You probably don't know, but this is a really terrifying thing for your animal. This is a horrible thing for other people. The people that have to be there and do that, like you can't do that. And unfortunately, we can't put our animal in that position where you could choose that again. And we're sorry that that's the case. But we hope that after you've heard our perspective and understand the perspective of the people doing the euthanization, that you would never do that again. But we don't know. And we're sorry it's not gonna work out with us. But yeah, she was mad and. And it wasn't a financial thing.
Pate:Mm-hmm.
jme:And we said that too. We said if it was a financial thing, then that's one thing. It's still not great, but like, please do better next time is what we said in the nicest way possible. You can't do that. You just can't do that. You can't do that to the animals. You can't do that to people.
Pate:It's just not fair.
jme:No. Well, we've run out of time again this week. We seem to do that a lot, but we don't need a second episode for this one.
Pate:Are you sure?
jme:Well, I think so. I am Jme.
Pate:This is Pate.
jme:And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue.
Pate:And this is our podcast Rescue Shit. Rock On.
jme:Rescue On. I forgot that part.
Pate:What?
jme:The Rock On Rescue on, I always forget.